SPEAKERS
Lourdes Gant, Brian Tsuyoshi Takeda
Lourdes Gant 00:05
As a business owner of an aquaculture company, how can you take the first step to be profitable and sustainable at the same time? That’s what we’re going to be talking about in these episodes. Hello, and welcome to the business of agriculture podcast. This is the podcast for the Sustainable Business movement in the Aquafarming and ocean ranching industries. This podcast aims to amplify the voices of entrepreneurs addressing the United Nation global goals, aka Sustainable Development Goals, Number 14.
To conserve and sustainably use the oceans and the seas, listening to fellow business aquaculturists in their journey in this new model of food production, of making their business sustainable, and help the ecology of the ocean, while also making a profit all at the same time. Get inspired to learn how even small to medium businesses can make an impact, save the seas, leave a legacy, and have a better quality of life. One of our goals is to take away a nugget of wisdom that will help your business move from the industrial revolution to business 5.0.
Our vision is that of collaboration in the aquaculture industry. I am Lourdes Gant your host. As an aquaculture business owner, how do you tackle the balance between being able to run a sustainable business and being profitable at the same time? That’s what we’re going to be talking about in this episode. Welcome to Episode Seven of the Business of Aquaculture.
In this episode, I’m honored to have Mr. Brian Takeda who is the founder and CEO of Urchinomics. Urchinomics is in the business of restorative aquaculture. Ecologically destructive sea urchins are fished, ranched, and turned into high valued seafood. As a result, we help kelp forests recover. This in turn brings marine biomass and diversity back to coastal ecosystems, sequesters CO2, and creates meaningful employment in rural, coastal communities. Welcome to the show, Brian.
Brian Tsuyoshi Takeda 02:10
Hi.
Lourdes Gant 02:11
Thank you for taking the time to be here today.
Brian Tsuyoshi Takeda 02:15
I appreciate the opportunity.
Lourdes Gant 02:16
So listen in and I hope you enjoy this episode. If you listen to our sixth episode, I interviewed Mr. Larsen Mettler of S2G ventures, and he discussed the upcoming agricultural trends in the next digital decade. Welcome again, Brian. So like I mentioned, our agenda will be short, with three questions. And let me start by asking, how did you get into the agriculture industry?
Brian Tsuyoshi Takeda 02:37
My journey is quite different from everyone else. I, I’ve never actually been involved that much in agricultural fisheries I was born in a prefecture in Japan that is one of the few that has no access to the sea. So I just don’t have those really cool dramatic stories of being born and in the ocean. But it’s not that it was just in 2011, I had an opportunity to meet a number of Japanese fisheries that were affected by the tsunami. Sorry, it was 2012.
When I had a chance to meet them, they told me about getting back on their feet. But they said it wasn’t really about the last boats or the houses or the destructive tsunami caused, it was actually the ecological destruction it caused. That was the core, that tsunami washed away the predatory species that kept sea urchins in check. So when they got back with their new boats in their houses, the urchins exploded in population overgraze the entire kelp forest, which was the foundation of their fisheries, and so they had no fish to catch.
And so that’s the first time I really got to understand, okay, sea urchins can be a problem. And that’s how I kind of got more involved in the idea of using Norwegian aquaculture technologies and trying to convert the search engines into a premium delicacy while removing them from the ocean and allowing the kelp forests to recover.
Lourdes Gant 03:51
Wow, it’s quite actually dramatic, though, how you got started. That’s one thing I like about interviewing people in this podcast is that some of them are either born into it or somebody like you did, who just basically bumped into the opportunity of helping and be a value to other people’s challenges. In your case, sea urchin I guess,
Brian Tsuyoshi Takeda 04:12
Yes, no, I think you’re right, I didn’t really envision in my career development that I would be playing with the sea creatures. But you know, there’s also a rather calculated opportunity we’re seeing here, when you see how much work we as a civilization need to do to reverse the ecological damage that we’ve been doing on this planet for hundreds of years.
Now, there are various solutions out there, but the ones that have some of the greatest impacts are out at sea. I mean, the ecosystem services that a kelp forest provides are five times greater than a tropical forest, and 10 times greater than a boreal forest.
That’s how much impact restoring one hectare of kelp forests does. So so it’s just pure math right you know, limited resources, do what you can to get the best outcome. And surprisingly, the coastal ecosystems are one of the most important ecosystems on the planet that are definitely worth restoring.
Lourdes Gant 05:06
I love it, I just am glad that there are a lot of people like you out there who say, love Mother Nature and Mother Nature love you back. In our case, being in business just produces value for people.
Brian Tsuyoshi Takeda 05:20
On one hand, we have that idealisms know deep within us. But we’re also very pragmatic and recognize that economics still drives a lot of things in our world. So it’s for that reason, our whole concept is built on a sustainable economic business as well.
Because no matter how much theory you talk about, you know, all the good you can do if it’s not economically sustainable, it just becomes a grand project that disappears over time. So you know, Urchinomics is really founded on the idea that we’re going to produce a very premium delicious seafood product, which we have validated in the toughest market, like in Tokyo, in Japan.
So we’re confident that the model can deploy. Now the question is, can our model deployed effectively in other regions around the world where we also have version bands, and that’s part of the work that we’re doing today.
Lourdes Gant 06:06
Sounds good. And it looks like you’re already gaining traction, you’re all over the news with the last funding that you guys got. And like what I said you do good to Mother Nature, good business will come to you. So congratulations.
Brian Tsuyoshi Takeda 06:19
Yes, thank you very much. We’re very lucky. I mean, and it is Japan’s largest energy provider, and they’re on a mission to decarbonize as quickly as possible. And essentially, what they’ve discovered is that they can’t buy enough forests to offset their activity.
So they need to stimulate new decarbonization projects. So we happen to be their best choice in terms of ocean-related stuff. So, ya know, they’re very much pushing decarbonization, and they’re putting their money where their mouth is, they’re essentially saying every carbon sequestration opportunity we can create, they are willing to pay full market prices for the carbon credit, even if it’s voluntary. That just gives us more resources to reinvest into restoration. Brilliant.
Lourdes Gant 07:00
So I know you’re in a way, like me, I entered this sphere, because I’m married my husband, as you know, who’s into agriculture and like you who bumped into the fishermen who needed the help. What did you think are the pros and cons of being in this sphere?
Brian Tsuyoshi Takeda 07:14
From a nonagricultural background, what I think is really exciting about this space, is that there’s to get an effective level of protein from aquaculture seems far more efficient than anything that we can do. In agriculture. One of the scientists told me the big difference between fish and land animals is that fish can float. And they don’t expend energy to stay upright or keep their body warm. So they’re just inherently efficient proteins compared to men’s denim.
So I think there’s a lot of just inherent deficiencies that come with aquaculture that we just don’t see in ag. But I think the challenges though, is that agriculture has had several 1000 years of history and regulatory rules were built around that evolution, where aquaculture has been kind of a relatively new concept, at least in the West. And so the rules that are being applied are sometimes a lot more constructive than they probably should be, when you’re trying to develop a nascent industry, it’s coming from somewhere good because it’s about to let’s not make the same mistakes we did with agriculture and aquaculture. So in that sense, I think it’s a good thing.
But I think at times, we are being a little too restrictive and preventing some of the good things from happening. And Urchinomics, I think, is a good example. We like to think that we are a net positive. I mean, the more we get urgency out of the oceans, the more the kelp forests recover, and the environment gets better. But having said that, though, we run into many regulatory challenges that prevent us from deploying.
So we have to be careful where we put in our development efforts. Because at one point in time, we could run into a wall that says, Oh, you know what, everything was good. We all love you everything. That’s great. But oh, your front of our paragraph four to a section one, and not we can’t do it. And that’s After three years of lobbying. And we’ve had that experience before. So it’s like, what it does is that when we deploy our sights, and when we think about where we’re going to build the next sites, we have to be a bit cynical and see we’re cynical, realistic, and focus on the jurisdictions that will allow us to do this as opposed to pulling up some weird old regulation that’s going to stop us at the last minute. Well, I think that answers the question.
Lourdes Gant 09:29
It did it did. I definitely feel your pain. As you know, we’re in Canada. And so we’re in the same boat. And I would like to think my background is an auditor. So instead of being cynical, we have actually an accounting principle and being professional skeptics.
Brian Tsuyoshi Takeda 09:47
But that’s, that’s a healthy approach. I mean, I’ve now been living in Norway for almost 11 years now. And I think the significant difference that I see from a business culture perspective here is the country here is very much but verify approach. It’s not like you’re innocent until proven guilty approach, which I think is more North American.
And so there are a lot of systems in place to keep things in check. And I think that is a good principle to have. It’s just that in terms of aquaculture, I think I think the standards are quite different to other industries because maybe it’s more nascent. So yeah, I think sometimes we need to take a step back, look at the big picture and say, Hey, you know, is this role really what we need right now?
Lourdes Gant 10:28
Absolutely. And I think this is one of the things that I’ve learned since I’ve interviewed quite a number of people, and it’s in the same boat. And if you believe it, you know, I mean, I’m in Vancouver Island we’re in we have quite a number of wineries in here. And when I was doing my promotion for sustainable business 5.0, that’s one of the biggest challenges that they’re having. Can you believe actually that Vancouver Island wineries cannot sell their wineries to even other parts of Canada, they actually, people from Montreal can actually order wines from Argentina, and people here from Vancouver Island cannot sell them to Montreal people.
So it was ridiculous. But I hear what you’re saying. Yeah. So and I guess it’s not just in the agriculture industry, but in the other industries as well. And I’m bringing a point here, why I mentioned that it’s because I think now that we’re, you’re from Japan, so you probably already know, society. 5.0 is about imagination, society in a lot of the structures, including government and institutions, even banking, especially after COVID hits, that it’s getting obsolete. And so it’s, I guess, now time to probably have more people talk about how we can update the ruling so that it can be more like what you mentioned, I love what you mentioned about trust, then verify. And then it helps people to actually be more effective in trying to do their job or their business for that matter.
Brian Tsuyoshi Takeda 11:49
Fair enough. But no, in all fairness, though, I think the aquaculture industry in general needs to be better at communicating what we do. One of the biggest challenges I find is essential, the farther I get from Norway, and the closer I get to the west coast, the word aquaculture is sometimes pretty loaded. And right just by saying that you’re in agriculture, people get defensive. So clearly, we as an industry have not done a very good job, communicating what the true ecological values are in creating sustainable or even restorative proteins. So we also need to take our share of responsibility and make sure that we’re just better at telling our own story.
Lourdes Gant 12:25
Absolutely. And interestingly enough, I was just interviewing Shaun O’Loughlin from the global agriculture Alliance is specifically this same topic we’re in they have to actually really be, I guess, proactive in terms of producing education assets because half of the battle is actually telling people how we are helpful versus detrimental to the ecology of the ocean. So I totally hear what you’re saying. But we’re all on board, I guess there in terms of having to educate people about what we do. So my last question to you is, what do you think are the top three trends that are going to happen in the agriculture sphere in the next 10 years?
Brian Tsuyoshi Takeda 13:04
Oh, wow. I don’t know if I’m the qualified person to answer that.
I guess for me, one of whether it’s agriculture or Wildcat fisheries, that one of the things that I’ve been feeling quite, I think I think COVID really under highlighted particularly, but high valued seafood, you know, premium seafood, luxury seafood, which is really not like the necessity proteins, but you know, the really premium stuff that is a luxury, that type of seafood being put on an airplane and flown across the world, to be delivered to high paying customers.
I get the economics of it, you know, exotic seafood, you know, you get premium prices, it’s good for business, but the carbon footprint is pretty crazy. And in our space, sea urchin row, right? Like our entire industry, right? Japan produces 15% of its urchin consumption, which means 85% of the urchins that they consume in Japan, which has to come from the craziest corners of the world.
Lourdes Gant 14:00
Right.
Brian Tsuyoshi Takeda 14:01
And flown in. And I don’t know, to me, I think one of them if you say 10 years, one of the things that I would really like to see and we’re trying to find ways to make this happen as well, is to reduce our dependency on air freight. And using no Ras systems on container vessels, for example, so that we can transport live fish using a far more environmentally friendly solution as opposed to burning that much jet fuels just so that that top 1% can enjoy their wonderful, you know, King Crab legs.
I mean, I love it. No, no, don’t get me wrong. It’s just that I think we got to do better. So I think transport and logistics are probably one of the things as more consumers become ethically and environmentally aware. I think they’re going to realize that a lot of things are not as good as they should be. I’m hoping that we also will see far lower trophic cap aquaculture, meaning not going too deep into the predatory fish farming like bluefin tuna farming, which you know, I get it, you know, we don’t want to tax the wilds Talks. But that’s a lot of energy that goes into producing a protein.
You know, if we can go lower trophic, I think that just has a lot nicer to the world. So I think I think those are the two that I wish, I don’t know how quickly that will happen. But yeah, efficient and better, more environmental logistics, and lower trophic aquaculture. So if we can start eating the smaller critters as opposed to the big ones, I think we’ll be doing the planet a big service.
Lourdes Gant 15:26
Well, thank you so much, Brian, this has been a delightful interview with you, you’re a gazillion of information. I love that you did drop a lot of statistics in there for our listeners because it does give credibility in terms of what’s going on out there. It’s most of the time, the space is a lot more blurred in terms of what’s happening.
And so numbers just give concrete, I guess, reality to what we’re doing. So my biggest takeaway from this episode is when you were talking about taking responsibility, I think that a lot of people in whatever sphere or space or industry, it’s just that all of us have a role and responsibility to what we’re doing to protect Mother Earth. So thank you for saying that. For the next episode, we’ll have Mr. Bill Taylor of Taylor hatcheries who will share with us the secret sauce of having six family generations of business agriculturists Thanks again, Brian, and I look forward to talking to you soon.
Brian Tsuyoshi Takeda 16:19
All right. Sounds good. Thank you very much.
Lourdes Gant 16:24
Thank you for listening, and I hope you’re inspired by this episode. Do take a moment and share this with your friends and colleagues and rate and review the podcast wherever you get your podcasts. I’d love to know what your biggest takeaway from this conversation has been? What are you going to do differently? Please share thoughts across social media and tag us for links and Show Notes for this episode, visit our website, www.sustainableaquaculture.ca/podcast. Thank you again. I hope you will join me on the next episode and together we can help create a better business in aquaculture.